05/25/2004: "The New Hitler"

Replies: 22 Comments

On Tuesday, May 25th, at 16:41 PST, princess said:

Your link is busted...probably a conspiracy from the powers that be to keep the truth from the people.

However, I agree with you except on one point. It is not Bush taht is so power hungry, he is literally a pawn. unlike Hitler who I believe was truely power hungry and intelligent.
Bush, I mean (you know who) is surounded by very powerful, corrupt people and he is being used. He is however to blame as well, for lack of intelligence is not a real excuse. Just an explaination.

Why so bitter and political today?

"I wanna take you to a gay bar, gay bar..."

On Tuesday, May 25th, at 16:48 PST, Rev Dr said:

haha! SquidGuard blocks this as 'porn'

On Tuesday, May 25th, at 16:56 PST, Chris Tann said:

Thanks, fixed the link. They can't keep us down!

Nah, not bitter, just doing my "Beautiful Mind" style analysis of patterns. Damn Cryptonomicon!

On Tuesday, May 25th, at 17:15 PST, Graeme Sutherland said:

But Dubya is just a patsy. He's not clever enough to take over the world.

It just seems to me that the US has been taken over by a bunch of idealistic schoolboys playing war games. They are very powerful, but not very sensible. General Zinni said it rather well in his ten mistakes in Iraq speech: http://barkingowl.com/middle~path/archives/2004/05/24/ten-mistakes-re-iraq/

No wonder the US military is getting pissed off.

(And this show you what a blog-whore I am, driving traffic to my own blog;-)

On Thursday, May 27th, at 12:13 PST, Aj said:

What if he isnt really and idiot and this is just a guise he's been putting on his entire life. And who said that you have to be intelligent to be a mass murderer of international proportions. What if he is really a mini me of his father who is actually THE DR evil.

On Sunday, May 30th, at 12:44 PST, Shon said:

It's funny (in a disturbing way) that you should mention similarities between Bush and our old friend Adolf (or, to be more precise, the situations now and then).

The whole invade, torture, repress, massacre and maim thing, along with concentration camps, laws which make privacy non-existent, sweeping powers to the 'secret' police and so forth have led me to ponder if my discomfort and helplessness at the present world 'order' is similar to that felt by the people in Germany (and elsewhere in Europe) when they chose to do nothing to stop Adolf. If so, it answers questions I have long asked myself - "Why did they do nothing?" "What could they have done to prevent or resist it? What would I have done in the same situation?

I'm not sure I like the answers that are springing to mind... :-(

What do you folks think? Am I just blowing it out my paranoid arse?

On Sunday, May 30th, at 12:54 PST, Chris Tann said:

"If so, it answers questions I have long asked myself - "Why did they do nothing?" "What could they have done to prevent or resist it? What would I have done in the same situation?"

Yup, spot on I recon. And the good thing about being over here, is that you get a close look at the sort of people that believe him. I think it is easy to think, looking back, that the German people were just "following along", but don't forget there was a large, hard core group that really believed what Hitler said.

I just saw "Assasins" last night, a musical about people who have tried or succeeded to assasinate a US pres. It caused quite a storm when it was released, especially as it was right around September 11th, and one guy (who's name eludes me) wanted to drop a 747 on Nixon and the white house. But its hard to believe that a guy made an attempt (a poor one at that) on Ronnie's life, who was basically just bumbling rather than evil...

On Sunday, May 30th, at 14:39 PST, princess said:

Assassins opened OFF broadway in 1990, not long after the attempt on Reagan's life. It never made it to broadway until this past March. Here is some history on Samuel Byck...One of the assassins mentioned in the musical..

Samuel Joseph Byck (1930 - February 22, 1974) was an unemployed tire salesman who attempted to hijack a plane from Baltimore-Washington International Airport on February 22, 1974. He intended to crash into the White House in hopes of killing U.S. President Richard M. Nixon. Byck shot and killed one of the pilots on the DC-9 Delta Airlines Flight 523, wounded another, then grabbed a nearby passenger and ordered her to "fly the plane". He was shot and wounded through the cabin door by police during the attempt and committed suicide; a gasoline bomb was found under his body. Subsequently, it was discovered Byck had sent a tape recording detailing his plan to news columnist Jack Anderson, and a review of records disclosed that Byck had been arrested protesting in front of the White House, dressed in a Santa suit, the previous December.

Byck had first come to the notice of the Secret Service in 1972, when he had first threatened Nixon, whom he had resented ever since the Small Business Administration had turned him down for a loan. Byck had also sent bizarre tape recording to various other public figures including Jonas Salk, Abraham Ribicoff, and Leonard Bernstein.

Interesting that I never knew that there had been attempts ( by our own people funny enough) to do use planes as weapons. Hijacking are nothing new, but I had not heard of this type of attempt before sept 11th. Granted this was before I was born, granted this musical is not common, but interesting that people were so shocked at this "creative" use of planes to destory, when the source of that method of destruction could have certainly been inspired by our own "terrorists". Not to get bitter and outraged, but certainly in response to the torture and abuse of prisoners in Iraq, americans must realize that "others" arent't the only ones that can be so evil. We just seemingly have a harder dtime pulling it off.

On Tuesday, June 1st, at 14:14 PST, JamieO said:

Hey there Susannah, I wouldn't say that the US has historically had too much trouble "pulling off" the use of planes as weapons of terrorism.

Here's a few quick examples (apologies that some of these were before your time too - but these and plenty more like them are well documented )

1955: The CIA allegedly blew up an Air India plane carrying the Chinese delegation to the Bandung Conference
1976: CIA-backed terrorists bombed a Cuban airliner and killed 73 civilians
1983: US-backed Angolan freedom fighters downed an Angolan civilian plane and killed 126
1988: US Warship Vincennes shot down an Iranian civilian airliner in a commercial air corridor and killed 290 (according to the Naval Commander, this was done because they needed to test the viability of their high-tech missile system!)

There are plenty more examples out there too if you want some pointers...

Actually - that wasn't what I came here to write - wanted to send a link to this thought-provoking, Hitler-related article on TomPaine.com - Which is a great site by the way! Well worth subscribing or bookmarking and checking regularly because they really churn out some brilliant articles.

They are kind of a progressive portal with lots of links to other alternative news sites covering all sorts of progressive stuff - Just noticed this link to a good article about biodiesel for you Chris.

I also found this recent article to be incredibly amusing in a perversely ironic kinda way...

On Tuesday, June 1st, at 17:55 PST, princess said:

My main comment was about our own country. Yes yes we are forever invading and blowing up things in other countries, but a plane, into a building, by an american, targeting american specifically was news to me. Dying for the cause, not just killing and "covering up" or what have you. Now, find me examples of other countries doing the same thing and I won't take your comment as anti american, just anti terrorism if not then I will assume we are the only evil force or the only ones stupid enough to get caught and/or document it.

On Tuesday, June 1st, at 18:00 PST, Chris Tann said:

Rainbow Warrior? Oh yeah, that was a ship....

On Wednesday, June 2nd, at 12:24 PST, JamieO said:

Yeah, the French are pretty stupid when it comes to that kind of thing too They even flew that Concorde into one of their own hotels (Oh yeah - that was an accident - sorry hope that didn't offend anyone )

Historically though terrorism through whatever means is extensively used by colonial powers to keep on top of things.

Hmm, more specific non-American examples? Well in 1973 Israel shot down a civilian plane over the Suez Canal and killed 110 - Oops yeah - they're an American puppet, and they used American weapons. Guess that doesn't count then

Well, I guess we've always got KAL 007 and Lockerbie if you want to talk about real "bad guys" like Russians and Libyans doing evil things.

On Wednesday, June 2nd, at 09:56 PST, princess said:

Hey if they want to be puppets...

On Wednesday, June 2nd, at 11:57 PST, Chris Tann said:

Well, I'm obviously not the only one who thinks that way. Bush himself compares the war in Iraq with WWII. Pity that the poor guy doesn't realise that he is on the side of the baddies this time, not the goodies!

Interesting to read some of the voluminous posts in the message board attached to the article. A few people have been crying "Stop comparing Bush to Hitler". I dug in, looking for a good argument, but they stumped me:

"That's not fair to hitler. Hitler could put together compound sentences, use the correct words in the right places, and actually knew what he was doing."

"Hitler received more votes than his opponent, unlike Bush."

"Hitler was a decorated war veteran, unlike Bush."

On Wednesday, June 2nd, at 12:02 PST, ralph_kramden51 said:

(reposted without permission - sources unverified)

CONNECTION?

The connection is that Hitler used EXACTLY the same rational and terror hysteria to build his power and justify his invasions as we are using today. Hitler used the bombing of the Reichstag in 1933 and the resulting public hysteria as a springboard to power, and to justify certain human rights restrictions. Declaring a "war on terror" (sound familiar?) he used the spectre of terrorism to consolidate power even further, and for justification of his invasions.

"By the most brutal methods of terrorism, a regime sought to maintain an existence that was condemned by the overwhelming majority of its people...I have tried to persuade the responsible authorities that it is impossible for a great nation, because it is unworthy of it, to stand by and watch millions belonging to a great, an ancient civilized people be denied rights by their government... I have endeavoured to find some way to alleviate a tragic fate. One agreement was signed only to be broken. I then tried a second time to bring about an understanding. A few weeks later, we were forced to the conclusion that the government [of Austria] had no intention of carrying out this agreement in the spirit that had inspired it, but in order to create an excuse. I have determined, therefore, to place the help of our country at the service of these millions. Since this morning, our soldiers are on the march across all of Austria's frontiers."

-- Adolf Hitler, March 12, 1938, justifying the German invasion of Austria.

"We have no interest in oppressing other people. We are not moved by hatred against any other nation. We bear no grudge. I know how grave a thing war is. I wanted to spare our people such an evil. It is not so much the country [of Czechoslovakia]; it is rather its leader [Dr. Edward Benes]. He has led a reign of terror. He has hurled countless people into the profoundest misery. Through his continuous terrorism, he has succeeded in reducing millions of his people to silence. The Czech maintenance of a tremendous military arsenal can only be regarded as a focus of danger. We have displayed a truly unexampled patience, but I am no longer willing to remain inactive while this madman ill-treats millions of human beings."

-- Adolf Hitler, April 14, 1939, justifying the German invasion of Czechoslovakia.

"The wave of appalling terrorism against the [minority] inhabitants of Poland, and the atrocities that have been taking place in that country are terrible for the victims, but intolerable for a Great Power which has been expected to remain a passive onlooker. We will not continue to tolerate the persecution of the minority, the killing of many, and their forcible removal under the most cruel conditions. I see no way by which I can induce the government of Poland to adopt a peaceful solution. But I should despair of any honourable future for my own people if we were not, in one way or another, to solve this question."

-- Adolf Hitler, August 23, 1939, justifying the German invasion of Poland.

Most importantly Bush learned from the quote of this man:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Read it and weep (or not) but if you fail to see the connection between the Bush regime and Adolph Hitler's attempt at hegemony, then I suggest you do some further research on the subject.

On Wednesday, June 2nd, at 17:01 PST, JamieO said:

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

On Wednesday, June 2nd, at 17:11 PST, JamieO said:

http://www.nogw.com/nazibush.html

On Monday, June 7th, at 15:53 PST, Ch(K)ris said:

I blame Kant (and I spose the rest of the Enlightenment mofos too). This emphasis on the individual, whether speaking of "Bush", "Hitler", or the idea that started this thread, that "citizens" have an "individual" responsibility to change things. Anybody willing to go through Kant's various Critiques to find links between his writings and the justifications of various Western power discourses?

It would be different if more of the Western world spent time contemplating the loss of "self" through satori, or through an acceptance of the writings of Foucault - not better, just different...

On Monday, June 7th, at 15:58 PST, Chris Tann said:

But (Emmanuel) Kant was a real pisant
(who was very rarely stable)

On Thursday, June 10th, at 01:47 PST, Bellamy said:

Literal parallels aside, I've recently read a couple of really distressing accounts of how such an insane system as Nazi Germany came to be.

One is a book called "The Nazis: A Lesson From History" which was also a BBC TV series. It attempts to explain how an entire nation can drift into a more and more radical and, paradoxically, quasi-anarchic mindset if it's steered in the right direction. Interesting stuff.

The other is a work called "I Shall Bear Witness", and is the diary of a Jewish professor from Dresden from 1933 to 1945. It describes a long, slow descent into the inferno - the gradual suspension of civil rights, the evolution of social antisemitism into a national political doctrine, and the range of responses of other community members - Jewish and gentile - to it all. Kinda funny in one way, cos the guy's a bit of a hypochndriac who spends the entire era worrying about his health, and winds up one of the few surviving Jews in Dresden.

And finally, I also recently read Hugh Trevor-Roper's "Last Days of Hitler" - piecing together the evidence about Hitler's death etc. Interesting, and probably somewhat out of date, but what I found most fascinating was Trevor-Roper's scathing disdain for what he regarded as the Nordic mythological hokum that the Nazis (and, he seems to think, Germans in general) loved to wrap themselves in.

Anyway, a little off-topic, but if you want to demoralise yourself about our capacity for hate, there's a goldmine out there...

On Friday, January 7th, at 23:36 PST, Dean William Humphrey said:

americans are being led down the same dark aisle that fascists and dictatorships go.....you don't have to use your brain.... just keep working and let me take everything you got....email me at humphrey@nt.net

On Friday, January 7th, at 23:55 PST, dean said:

Sitting pretty in Timmins....